Visual Editors
Visual Editors, NFP was incorporated as a 501(c)(3) non-profit in 2004.
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Robb Montgomery
Founder
Joined: 07 Mar 2004
Posts: 1504
Location: Chicago
Posted:
Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:39 pm
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Preaching to the preacher.
Kudos on Bakersfield. It sounds like what was lacking was the enthusiasm for newspapering.
Enthusiam is like laughter - it's infectious, no?
You remember - I drew a lot of dagger eyes when I splashed up a dozen look-alike U.S. broadsheet fronts at SND Houston?
Well - I remember those looks . . .
Play the video.
Here's what I said in my presentations in Seoul and Houston last year.
North, south, east or west, big city or small town the majority are using but one standard approach."
You say it today in your press release like this:
. . . north, south, east, west, rich, poor, big and small. What's the likelihood of one format fitting all?
Couldn't agree more.
What is responsible . . .
Culture?
Editor's quotas?
Inarticulate or inflexible mandates?
Formulas by committee?
I know I have showed this broadsheet paper before - but you really have to travel a way to find a paper that edits the front of broadsheet in a daring, refreshingly smart and interesting way every day.
In Carlsbad they are attempting to bust out of the mandated mindset with a fresh, hyper-local read.
And in Toronto their still kinda new Sunday Maga Paper concept let's them edit outside of the hard and fast, tried and true 1A doping agenda.
(BTW, the 'maga paper' has worked particualry well for the Sunday Times in Singapore before that - and still does . . .)
Still, there's that rulebreaker in your hometown, Alan, right?
The Virginian-Pilot.
.
Last edited by Robb Montgomery on Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ernie Smith
VizEds Moderator
Joined: 03 Jul 2004
Posts: 726
Location: Linked in Norfolk, Va.
Posted:
Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:57 pm
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| alanjacobson wrote:: | Ernie,
Are you saying tabs are more original than broadsheets?
The only reason there are more broadsheets that look alike than tabs is that there are more broadsheets.
In the U.S. there are about 1,400 daily broadsheets. How many daily tabs are there?
6?
If there were more tabs, they would look alike, too.
Besides, I've put this tab vs. broadsheet debate to rest with FACTS. All the arguments in favor of tabs are OPINION.
A tab was tried in the U.S. and it FAILED.
Here's the story, with real quotes and real reporting, just like real journalists do.
http://www.brasstacksdesign.com/tabs_01.htm |
All I know is that I work for a tab right now in a very nontraditional market. And it's thriving.
My tab in Bluffton seems to be doing just fine, that's all I'm saying. Our little experiment hasn't failed yet, and our fronts have way more personality than your average newspaper of this size.
Let's do a taste test in the same style you did yours.
Can you tell which local paper I work at?
_________________
[-,-] Stoic boy, you're far from home |
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robschneider
Contributing editor
Joined: 18 Mar 2004
Posts: 212
Location: Dallas Morning News
Posted:
Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:46 am
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I seriously think you all are (unintentionally) showing a big part of what's wrong with American thinking behind newspapers.
Alan is showing how every U.S. broadsheet follow the same formula, but is really showing how great HIS REDESIGN IN BAKERSFIELD IS. And you're playing off the fact that it's better because it's different. Other McPapers had similar surges in single-copy sales after they redesigned (STL for one). Everything I've seen and read about your redesign leads me to believe it is great in the fact that it's willing to break traditional rules for use of photos, color and storytelling techniques. But, in the end it's your redesign, and you are selling that. To be honest, if the Bakersfield paper embraced all of the notions of its redesign but still looked like McPaper, would readers really not respond in much of the same way? You could have a really talented designer at McPaper A have the same material as another designer at the Bakersfield paper, wouldn't the McPaper have a chance to outwit the radical use of color and photos. Or does the talent of an individual designer not mean anything anymore? And why would anyone in Bakerfield care that their newspaper looked like 600 other newspapers IF THEIR NEWSPAPER HAD RELEVANT CONTENT TO THEM.
Robb, you aren't shy at all about what you are selling either, which (in my opinion) is that: a) tabs represent everything that is vibrant about design around the world, b) broadsheets, mostly U.S. broadsheets - not so much and c) U.S. newspaper design, when compared to the rest of the world, sucks. Robb, it's not hard to follow your line of logic to think that the format is all that matters. I know that's not what you are saying, but you're also not a newspaper publisher ...
And what is use of this endless pissing match between broadsheets and tabs. Can't we just admit that the ideas and mentality suck much more so than any size format anyone has every tried?
And Ernie, you represent another common attitude in the U.S., which is: yeah, newspapers suck, but not OUR NEWSPAPER - LOOK AT ALL OF THE COOL STUFF WE'RE DOING. That's a problem, because it's the mentality in newspaper all around the country. We just put a people column on A2 to lure younger readers in, so we won't need to worry about what's on A7, B1, B2-xx, C6 or D5. If the Bluffton model is working, it's not because it's a tab or any one person, it's because you've created an environment where the reader gets a distinct personality from the publication - something that definitely isn't happening in U.S. newspapers now. But did you really need the tab to have the personality? Couldn't that personality translate to an 8x11 sheet or a broadsheet?
Wouldn't it be great to put away our special interests and talk about why we suck and we all think we're going to be out of jobs in five years? And how fixing the problem is going to take a whole lot more than Bakersfield or a tab format to fix?
Thanks. That was a lot of fun. Let the flaming begin.
ps - In case it comes up, Alan did use my publication as one of his examples and for the record I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH ALAN. I. DON'T. CARE. HE. IS. RIGHT. This tirade is fueled by hearing these same arguments go on and on in the past. |
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Paul Wallen
Maestro
Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Posts: 292
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Florida
Posted:
Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:00 am
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I think one of the problems is that most people seem to assume innovation should come in the visual presentation.
Maybe that's because visual journalists have led the charge in pushing new ideas and taking chances for so long. Most of what little innovation newspapers have experienced in the last decade or two has come in visuals. And even though papers across the board are so much more visually sophisticated now – thanks to technology and the advent of newspaper design – how much has newspaper content changed during that same time?
This may sound harsh, but I think newspapers – U.S. papers in particular – are guilty of using visuals as a crutch when it comes to innovation. It's easy to turn to the visuals department or a consultant and say, "Give me a new look" while I keep producing exactly the same kind of content.
Yes, I believe design matters to readers, or I would be doing something else. But maybe there are just very few innovations left to be made with the current content structure. How many different ways can you present content created with the exact same formula? And since we're comparing front pages, my God, how many different ways can you present an A1 with five or six narrative story starts?
It's time for the innovation to start coming in the content. It's time for the innovation to start coming in the way we conceive, write and edit the paper. It's time to be innovative with story forms, with voice, with attitude, with pacing and story count. And that's going to involve the entire newsroom, not just the designers.
_________________
Just remember that it's a grand illusion. |
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