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Visual Editors, NFP was incorporated as a 501(c)(3) non-profit in 2004.

Download This Topic Previous topic Next topic	SND's world's best-designed papers announced
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Dave Shutton

Contributing editor

Joined: 07 Jul 2004

Posts: 162

Location: Norfolk, VA.

Posted:
Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:37 am

I don't want to get caught up in criticisms of the Hartford Courant in particular. I admire them in many ways for what they do and their elegant approach really works beautifully for certain things. But that election front does not take a chance in any way. It is completely conventional, especially in light of how the Courant does things on a daily basis. But newspapers consistently fool themselves about what is radical and chancy. Readers see Rolling Stone, ESPN the magazine, Wallpaper, Martha Stewart Living, etc that make newspapers look dowdy by comparison. Readers have much more design and visual savvy than we ever give them credit for. The headline/photo/30 inches of copy model for storytelling is available from multiple sources anymore -- e.g. the Internet -- and if newspapers continue to think in this way and consider the most mundane design efforts as radical, they are going to walk right off a cliff. Unfortunately, that seems to be the thinking at SND these days.

Guest

Posted:
Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:29 am

[quote=dave sutton]and if newspapers continue to think in this way and consider the most mundane design efforts as radical, they are going to walk right off a cliff. Unfortunately, that seems to be the thinking at SND these days.[/quote]

i don't disagree with you. i'm one of those new art school snobs/graduate who can see radical such as those listed magazines are "forward thinking" and the top five newspaper are "stately." and thinking only one way could and will bog down the newspaper industry (but i think there's more to it than just visuals).

but i also disagree. newspapers and magazines are two very different creatures. the major difference: format and print reproduction. newspaper presses cannot get those vibrate colors (but wouldn't be cool if newspaper press and its paper stock can handle metallic inks). another: editorial style. third: time. four: money.

die ziet and hartford courant are selected to be in this ilk because of the timeless design they have. if you compare the way newspapers have looked for the centuries... the standard-look of newspapers has stayed. now, look at magazines that were "radicial" and "trendy" during oh say the 80s... thoses have died off or looks really dated. magazines design trends changes very two... three years.

newspaper captures events in time.

that's two cents from an art school snob.[/i]

chriscourtney

Contributing editor

Joined: 20 Jun 2004

Posts: 209

Location: RedEye

Posted:
Wed Feb 23, 2005 11:56 am

Yo Rukan... it's a billboard front :) ... i like the fact that they got out of the way of the event and made it more about the navagation of the 8-10 pages they had inside rather than trying to tell you the entire story on the cover...

for those who don't think that this is 'trendy enough,' while nothing about it is groundbreaking, part of good design is knowing when to get out of the way... the classics in magazine and advertising design reinforce this notion...
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Robb Montgomery

Founder

Joined: 07 Mar 2004

Posts: 1504

Location: Chicago

Posted:
Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:14 pm

Here, Here!

You what would be really useful to the membership is a numerical breakdown of the contest entries by format type.

Broadsheet Entries: XXXX
Tabloid Entries: XXXX
Magazine Entries: XXXX

Then a breakdown by country:
U.S. XXXX
U.K. XXXX
Latin America XXXX
Europe XXXX
Asia XXXX
And so on . . .

By it's very nature I would assume that the contest creates a data-rich database, right?
Is this kind of breakdown something the SND leadership would be willing to share with their members? What other empirical data is available?

In an increasingly Tabloid newspaper world - I'd like to know how many of the world's Tabloid newspapers are entering the competition and at what level.
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Where in the world is Robb?

Last edited by Robb Montgomery on Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:30 pm; edited 2 times in total

Dave Shutton

Contributing editor

Joined: 07 Jul 2004

Posts: 162

Location: Norfolk, VA.

Posted:
Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:22 pm

Again, I'm not looking to get into a back and forth over the details of what I am trying to say. My larger point is that SND is out of touch and their World's Best winners show that. You seem to have keyed off of my examples that illustrate my points, thinking that I was suggesting that as what papers should do. I do not think they can be magazines -- though the Pilot tends toward a magazine look at times. Rather, people are familiar with visual sophistication because they see it all the time. My point is that the days of "timeless design" are over. Budgeting five stories and the picture that your photo editor deems the best of the day and calling it a page is not gonna cut it in today's media environment. Even getting some papers to think about maybe changing this is like navigating an aircraft carrier through a cul de sac. There's a big difference between trendy and forward looking. If you want a photo/headline/story, you can go to the Web. Where are the newspapers that are addressing this amongst the Best Of winners? SND is a bunch of dinosaurs running around shouting hosannas over how all the fronds have turned a wonderful shade of brown after the meteor has hit.

francie Williamson

VizEds Moderator

Joined: 06 Apr 2004

Posts: 224

Location: Quad City Times

Posted:
Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:47 pm

OK first of all, I don't think SND is entirely out of touch. Last year, they recognized Record, a sports tab in Mexico. It was vibrant and not what I would call stately at all.

Rather, I think that the people who judge World's Best year after year are culled from different viewpoints and backgrounds. Other than Danilo, I did not recognize one name from this year's list of judges. I have no idea if they are design people or executive editors or what-not.

That said, I think World's Best is so objective and so open to chance that it's difficult to give the category much credence. Five people deciding the year's best newspapers? Out of three entries each? It would be more accurate if the entire SND membership voted, like at the Oscars. It also would be more accurate if we had a weekly and daily world's best, because weekly papers have more time to devote to their fronts.

That's just my $.02

Jim McBee

VizEds Moderator

Joined: 10 Mar 2004

Posts: 929

Location: Fayetteville, N.C.

Posted:
Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:16 pm

The crowd boos as the Russian judge gives it a 6 ....

The winners tell us more about the judges than about the state of newspaper design.

Are there criteria the judges use to determine their votes (degree of difficulty factor?), or do they just stare at pages until they're half-blind and then give 'em the thumbs up or down?

Just curious. The point is, it's all subjective. I dunno about the rest of y'all, but I can barely stand to watch those Olympic sports that are entirely dependent on judges. The athletes are amazing, yeah, but ....

---------

An Oscar system ... now there's an idea. Maybe some enterprising young maniac (COUGHMatt) will devise a voting system using PDFs. And that could be a VizEds project. And if we did our voting before the Osc- eh, before SND, it'd be sorta like the Golden Globes.

Rich Boudet

Contributing editor

Joined: 10 Mar 2004

Posts: 194

Location: Seattle WA

Posted:
Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:35 pm

Interesting ... maybe we need a VizEds award show!
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Dave Shutton

Contributing editor

Joined: 07 Jul 2004

Posts: 162

Location: Norfolk, VA.

Posted:
Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:49 pm

Don't get me started on the state of SND judging. Apologies to those who may have done it in the past.

I think that the SND judging can say a lot about the state of our industry. These are chosen from among the top in their field. In addition, SND is a self-selecting organization; you join if you believe in its mission.

Basically, I'm just sick of newspapers being a bunch of boring predictable yuck and the industry patting itself on the back for it. We have the freeest press in the world, and our papers are soooooo dull. I 'spose you could look at my stuff and call me out on that point too, if you want.

I guess this was intended to be a thread for gushing, and I've become like a crazy old man yelling at the kids for coming into my yard.

becktowery

Visual Guru

Joined: 29 Apr 2004

Posts: 59

Location: Chattanooga, Tenn.

Posted:
Wed Feb 23, 2005 2:03 pm

Dave Shutton wrote::

Where's the storytelling, the skillful editing of content to make it easy and accessible? Where's the integration of ideas? What do I get from these papers that I would not if I simply read the story online as a column of type?

Not to be a smart ass or anything... but this is a design contest? No?

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