----------------------------------- mims Mon Feb 21, 2005 2:25 pm SND's world's best-designed papers announced ----------------------------------- check out the winners with judges' comments at http://snd.org/competitions/2005/wbd/english.html ----------------------------------- francie Williamson Mon Feb 21, 2005 2:49 pm ----------------------------------- I'm surprised a USA paper made it this year. Not surprised at Die Ziet. They win every year. I was hoping the Columbus Dispatch or Tampa Tribune would be up there. They're my current faves and I thought they both had great years. ----------------------------------- Jim McBee Mon Feb 21, 2005 3:17 pm ----------------------------------- With the exception of Marca, the judges appear to have gone with "stately" this year, and the Courant sure fills that bill. Of course, I'm just looking at one front per paper. Maybe when we see some inside pages we'll see some boldness. I was more inspired by last year's selections, which included two or three small- to medium-size papers. P.S.: Can't we just give Die Zeit a lifetime achievement award already? :-) ----------------------------------- canderson Mon Feb 21, 2005 3:22 pm ----------------------------------- Jim, "stately" is a great word for these choices, I think. I've looked closely at a few of them (Courant, Svenska Dagbladet, Der Tagesspiegel) and they are all refined, elegant and bold. Last year's winners were indeed a bit more eclectic. I'm kind of shocked there wasn't a Best of Show awarded, though. ----------------------------------- Rich Boudet Mon Feb 21, 2005 3:40 pm ----------------------------------- Considering the design buzz it generated in the U.S. last year, I'm curious how well Red Eye did in the judging. ----------------------------------- Charles Gooch Mon Feb 21, 2005 3:44 pm ----------------------------------- If there are two things Germans love, it's good design and David Hasselhoff. gooch. ----------------------------------- Mike Rice Mon Feb 21, 2005 3:44 pm ----------------------------------- Considering the design buzz it generated in the U.S. last year, I'm curious how well Red Eye did in the judging. I'm told that the database of winners will be online in an estimated 2-3 weeks. But they have a lot of things to do before they can get that list ready - so I wouldn't be surprised if it takes a little longer. ----------------------------------- Rich Boudet Mon Feb 21, 2005 3:52 pm ----------------------------------- Mike - you know! Come on, we need an SND Deep Throat on all things interesting. ----------------------------------- wrand Mon Feb 21, 2005 4:58 pm ----------------------------------- "Stately" is what you call a yankee with his/her hair down. ----------------------------------- charles apple Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:40 pm Hartford Courant, four others '05 World's Best-Designed ----------------------------------- After I posted this, I found that Mims had it covered already. I'll re-post here and delete my previous post. --- SportsDesigner blogger Rich Boudet points out that SND already has posted its list of winners of this year's World's Best-Designed Newspapers. The only U.S. winner this year: The Hartford Courant (Circulation: 250,000) About the Courant, the judges write: This paper is a standout in the American newspaper market. The Hartford Courant distinguishes itself with an enduring elegance in design and typography. Though conservative in their approach, designers engage readers with the bold use of visuals. The contrast between their quiet, understated style and the gutsy photography and illustrations create a tension that captures the attention of readers. The other winners: Die Zeit, Hamburg, Germany (Circulation: 450,000) Svenska Dagbladet, Stockholm, Sweden (Circulation: 189,000) Der Tagesspiegel, Berlin, Germany (Circulation: 150,000) Marca, Madrid, Spain (Circulation: 386,413) Read the release at SND: http://snd.org/competitions/2005/wbd/english.html Find the SportsDesigner blog here: http://sportsdesigner.blogs.com/ ----------------------------------- Kristin Lenz Mon Feb 21, 2005 11:51 pm ----------------------------------- for the four traditionals: the proof is in the pudding. content drives a powerful design. a refreshing breath to see that simplicity speaks volumes. for marca: rock on! i had not seen them before. but i liked what i saw. a great product with fast-paced design for fast-paced content. ----------------------------------- fordr Mon Feb 21, 2005 11:59 pm ----------------------------------- With the exception of Marca, the judges appear to have gone with "stately" this year, and the Courant sure fills that bill. Of course, I'm just looking at one front per paper. Maybe when we see some inside pages we'll see some boldness. If one front can seal a WBD award, I thought Hartford did it on Election night: http://www.newseum.org/media/tfp_archive/110304/lg/CT_HC.jpg Restrained, but intense, and pretty different from most of the rest of the country, IMHO. ----------------------------------- chriscourtney Tue Feb 22, 2005 12:15 am ----------------------------------- If there is such a thing as doing it right, that election cover is on it... ----------------------------------- Alan Formby-Jackson Tue Feb 22, 2005 7:51 am ----------------------------------- Marca is such a cool paper. I'm pleased it's got the recognition. Check out these front pages. http://www.marca.com/primeras/05/febrero05.html ----------------------------------- Kilometer31 Tue Feb 22, 2005 9:08 am ----------------------------------- I'm such a fan of the Hartford Courant -- even if I do regularly mispronounce it. The power of simplicity. I love that they can manage to: * Fly in the face of all the trends and research about mulitple points of entry and such. (I still firmly believe in those things -- but Hartford pulls it off.) * Regularly be such a GREAT front page for photojournalism -- by so often only having ONE well-selected, well-played image on a page. * Excercise such wonderful restraint in typography. Mind you, I don't think their approach would work in a lot of markets. (The way they design, they must know they have READERS in their market that can be counted on to burrow past just the one level of headline. In many, many other markets, I don't think it's safe to make that assumption.) ----------------------------------- larry jones Tue Feb 22, 2005 6:24 pm ----------------------------------- nicht verstehen... Der Tagesspiegel Berlin, Germany Circulation: 150,000 An elegant, sophisticated, yet newsy German paper that presents its content using a strong but subtle hierarchy. Der Tagesspiegel’s editors and designers show the best practices in building visual narratives through excellence in the use of typography, images, color and graphics. As a result, designers offer a pleasant, page-by-page news-enriching experience that rescues the value of broadsheet newspapers. just wondering? what do the judges mean by strong but subtle...by its nature, doesn't heirarchy depend on clarity? i can't find an online example of this nuance. thx ----------------------------------- Dave Shutton Tue Feb 22, 2005 10:11 pm ----------------------------------- I hate to be the skunk at the garden party, but to be honest I think that the judges honored surface elegance and not true substance. Or, to put it another way, what they honored are the very things that are killing newspapers. Where's the storytelling, the skillful editing of content to make it easy and accessible? Where's the integration of ideas? What do I get from these papers that I would not if I simply read the story online as a column of type? The judges' comments are art school mumbo-jumbo that serves the readers understanding of a story not one bit. SND is a useless organization. ----------------------------------- Guest Tue Feb 22, 2005 10:42 pm ----------------------------------- man, those german papers... i'm a huge fan of die zeit. honestly, i cry whenever i look at it. their grid. their white space. their typefaces. *sob* ----------------------------------- Guest Wed Feb 23, 2005 5:22 am ----------------------------------- With the exception of Marca, the judges appear to have gone with "stately" this year, and the Courant sure fills that bill. Of course, I'm just looking at one front per paper. Maybe when we see some inside pages we'll see some boldness. If one front can seal a WBD award, I thought Hartford did it on Election night: http://www.newseum.org/media/tfp_archive/110304/lg/CT_HC.jpg Restrained, but intense, and pretty different from most of the rest of the country, IMHO. That election front is excellent, but I thought the front posted on the SND site was pretty cr*ppy (and that's completely ignoring that it looks like the judges spent the weekend tap-dancing on it). The mix of headline styles and the overheaded jump stories are not pretty in my eyes. When I showed the SND announcement to some of my colleagues, they had the same initial reaction as me: "are they kidding?!!!" I didn't see any "stateliness" in that particular Hartford front but, unlike the judges, I haven't seen the rest of the paper and it seems to have a lot of fans here, so maybe the one on SND is just a bad example? ----------------------------------- chris rukan Wed Feb 23, 2005 8:30 am ----------------------------------- I'm not too sure about that Hartford election day page. It's pretty, for sure. And it's great that they took a chance and tried a different approach. But most of the news (and the real meat of the photo) gets buried below the fold. And a quick scan of the front page (one story, four refers) isn't going to give you a whole lot of information. ----------------------------------- Dave Shutton Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:37 am ----------------------------------- I don't want to get caught up in criticisms of the Hartford Courant in particular. I admire them in many ways for what they do and their elegant approach really works beautifully for certain things. But that election front does not take a chance in any way. It is completely conventional, especially in light of how the Courant does things on a daily basis. But newspapers consistently fool themselves about what is radical and chancy. Readers see Rolling Stone, ESPN the magazine, Wallpaper, Martha Stewart Living, etc that make newspapers look dowdy by comparison. Readers have much more design and visual savvy than we ever give them credit for. The headline/photo/30 inches of copy model for storytelling is available from multiple sources anymore -- e.g. the Internet -- and if newspapers continue to think in this way and consider the most mundane design efforts as radical, they are going to walk right off a cliff. Unfortunately, that seems to be the thinking at SND these days. ----------------------------------- Guest Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:29 am ----------------------------------- die ziet and hartford courant are selected to be in this ilk because of the timeless design they have. if you compare the way newspapers have looked for the centuries... the standard-look of newspapers has stayed. now, look at magazines that were "radicial" and "trendy" during oh say the 80s... thoses have died off or looks really dated. magazines design trends changes very two... three years. newspaper captures events in time. that's two cents from an art school snob.[/i] ----------------------------------- chriscourtney Wed Feb 23, 2005 11:56 am ----------------------------------- Yo Rukan... it's a billboard front :) ... i like the fact that they got out of the way of the event and made it more about the navagation of the 8-10 pages they had inside rather than trying to tell you the entire story on the cover... for those who don't think that this is 'trendy enough,' while nothing about it is groundbreaking, part of good design is knowing when to get out of the way... the classics in magazine and advertising design reinforce this notion... ----------------------------------- Robb Montgomery Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:14 pm ----------------------------------- Here, Here! You what would be really useful to the membership is a numerical breakdown of the contest entries by format type. Broadsheet Entries: XXXX Tabloid Entries: XXXX Magazine Entries: XXXX Then a breakdown by country: U.S. XXXX U.K. XXXX Latin America XXXX Europe XXXX Asia XXXX And so on . . . By it's very nature I would assume that the contest creates a data-rich database, right? Is this kind of breakdown something the SND leadership would be willing to share with their members? What other empirical data is available? In an increasingly Tabloid newspaper world - I'd like to know how many of the world's Tabloid newspapers are entering the competition and at what level. ----------------------------------- Dave Shutton Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:22 pm ----------------------------------- Again, I'm not looking to get into a back and forth over the details of what I am trying to say. My larger point is that SND is out of touch and their World's Best winners show that. You seem to have keyed off of my examples that illustrate my points, thinking that I was suggesting that as what papers should do. I do not think they can be magazines -- though the Pilot tends toward a magazine look at times. Rather, people are familiar with visual sophistication because they see it all the time. My point is that the days of "timeless design" are over. Budgeting five stories and the picture that your photo editor deems the best of the day and calling it a page is not gonna cut it in today's media environment. Even getting some papers to think about maybe changing this is like navigating an aircraft carrier through a cul de sac. There's a big difference between trendy and forward looking. If you want a photo/headline/story, you can go to the Web. Where are the newspapers that are addressing this amongst the Best Of winners? SND is a bunch of dinosaurs running around shouting hosannas over how all the fronds have turned a wonderful shade of brown after the meteor has hit. ----------------------------------- francie Williamson Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:47 pm ----------------------------------- OK first of all, I don't think SND is entirely out of touch. Last year, they recognized Record, a sports tab in Mexico. It was vibrant and not what I would call stately at all. Rather, I think that the people who judge World's Best year after year are culled from different viewpoints and backgrounds. Other than Danilo, I did not recognize one name from this year's list of judges. I have no idea if they are design people or executive editors or what-not. That said, I think World's Best is so objective and so open to chance that it's difficult to give the category much credence. Five people deciding the year's best newspapers? Out of three entries each? It would be more accurate if the entire SND membership voted, like at the Oscars. It also would be more accurate if we had a weekly and daily world's best, because weekly papers have more time to devote to their fronts. That's just my $.02 ----------------------------------- Jim McBee Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:16 pm ----------------------------------- The crowd boos as the Russian judge gives it a 6 .... The winners tell us more about the judges than about the state of newspaper design. Are there criteria the judges use to determine their votes (degree of difficulty factor?), or do they just stare at pages until they're half-blind and then give 'em the thumbs up or down? Just curious. The point is, it's all subjective. I dunno about the rest of y'all, but I can barely stand to watch those Olympic sports that are entirely dependent on judges. The athletes are amazing, yeah, but .... --------- An Oscar system ... now there's an idea. Maybe some enterprising young maniac (COUGHMatt) will devise a voting system using PDFs. And that could be a VizEds project. And if we did our voting before the Osc- eh, before SND, it'd be sorta like the Golden Globes. ----------------------------------- Rich Boudet Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:35 pm ----------------------------------- Interesting ... maybe we need a VizEds award show! ----------------------------------- Dave Shutton Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:49 pm ----------------------------------- Don't get me started on the state of SND judging. Apologies to those who may have done it in the past. I think that the SND judging can say a lot about the state of our industry. These are chosen from among the top in their field. In addition, SND is a self-selecting organization; you join if you believe in its mission. Basically, I'm just sick of newspapers being a bunch of boring predictable yuck and the industry patting itself on the back for it. We have the freeest press in the world, and our papers are soooooo dull. I 'spose you could look at my stuff and call me out on that point too, if you want. I guess this was intended to be a thread for gushing, and I've become like a crazy old man yelling at the kids for coming into my yard. ----------------------------------- becktowery Wed Feb 23, 2005 2:03 pm ----------------------------------- Where's the storytelling, the skillful editing of content to make it easy and accessible? Where's the integration of ideas? What do I get from these papers that I would not if I simply read the story online as a column of type? Not to be a smart ass or anything... but this is a design contest? No? ----------------------------------- Dave Shutton Wed Feb 23, 2005 2:07 pm ----------------------------------- Newsboy wrote:Not to be a smart ass or anything... but this is a design contest? No? I read your comment to other designers here and they groaned. Please tell me that you are kidding. ----------------------------------- scavendish Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:58 pm ----------------------------------- Here, Here! You what would be really useful to the membership is a numerical breakdown of the contest entries by format type. Broadsheet Entries: XXXX Tabloid Entries: XXXX Magazine Entries: XXXX Then a breakdown by country: U.S. XXXX U.K. XXXX Latin America XXXX Europe XXXX Asia XXXX And so on . . . By it's very nature I would assume that the contest creates a data-rich database, right? Is this kind of breakdown something the SND leadership would be willing to share with their members? What other empirical data is available? In an increasingly Tabloid newspaper world - I'd like to know how many of the world's Tabloid newspapers are entering the competition and at what level. When they make a release, they usually give a country breakdown. What I'm not sure of is whether they even record the format (Broadsheet, tab). That's a good idea for future years, though. ----------------------------------- Jim K Wed Feb 23, 2005 5:42 pm ----------------------------------- Well, I have to confess that there have been past years where I've been left scratching my head at the "best designed" winners, so I would expect a similar reaction from some people this year. We certainly feel honored to have been chosen by the judges. I imagine that we were fortunate to have strong entries for the mandatory dates. I also think that some people overlook that the judges place a great deal of importance on consistent inside page design, something the European papers often are superior at and an area we have focused on improving. The bottom line is that effective design is subjective and depends on your audience. Our audience is an unusual combination of traditional New England values combined with sophisticated artistic sensibilities and knowledge. We strive to design our pages accordingly. Does it mean our design is "better" than everyone else's in the world? Certainly not. And what we do probably wouldn't be successful in other markets. But I do believe that our design, from the first page to the last, is consistent every day, without tricks or gimmicks. Yet there is a good amount of creativity. Perhaps that's what the judges saw. Next year there will be new winners and new controversies. All we as designers can do in the meantime is try to learn from each other, stay true to our readers and challenge ourselves. The awards are nice, but in 2003 we were "bums," and I image next year we'll be "bums" again. Except for Die Zeit. They're always great. ----------------------------------- Chris Clonts Wed Feb 23, 2005 8:16 pm QUOTE FROM A NON-DESIGNER ----------------------------------- A non-designer at our paper looked at some examples and said of the winners: "THEY'RE ALL GRAY. WHAT GIVES?" That said, maybe it's time to create SNAND: The Society for North American Newspaper Design. Our pirate-like motto could be "Die, Zeit, Die!" ----------------------------------- Bryan Volk Wed Feb 23, 2005 8:20 pm ----------------------------------- Don't get me started on the state of SND judging. Apologies to those who may have done it in the past. thanks, dave, i'm sure you'd love to expand on that thought, given the many times you've attended the judging in ... wait, you've never been to syracuse for the judging? how is it, then, that you're such an expert on the topic? maybe you should ask your colleague julie elman to weigh in on this, being that she just returned from this year's contest. I think that the SND judging can say a lot about the state of our industry. These are chosen from among the top in their field. In addition, SND is a self-selecting organization; you join if you believe in its mission. you're implying that, to become a judge, you need to have "bought in" to the SND mission and be an active member. yet that doesn't explain how roughly half of the judges this year are not members of the society. feel free to voice your thoughts, dave; keep in mind, however, that having strong feelings about something which you possess little-to-no knowledge is a rant, not a valid opinion. -bryan ----------------------------------- Chris Clonts Wed Feb 23, 2005 8:26 pm SND as cult ----------------------------------- Backing out and looking at the big picture, Bryan, it is, in fact, true: Most professional organizations are rather cultlike. They are self-selecting, and they tend to be led by small groups of highly dedicated people. Now Mr. Shutton may be judging those people, but hey, this is a public forum. He hasn't called anybody any names, and I hope to Christ that this year's judges can take the debate. It happens every year. So, as Han Solo once said, "Lighten up, fuzzball." ----------------------------------- Chris Clonts Wed Feb 23, 2005 8:51 pm Rants vs. opinions ----------------------------------- To say that someone can't comment because they've never been a judge or a volunteer is sophistic in the extreme, especially in a profession that values free speech. And whether an opinion is valid depends on each reader/listener, not one person. Besides: even if we're excluding true civilians, most of us in SND have 95 green reasons with George Washington's picture on them why we can comment on these issues. ----------------------------------- sbeard Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:05 pm Re: SND as cult ----------------------------------- So, as Han Solo once said, "Lighten up, fuzzball." As a Star Wars geek, I really appreciate the effort made here to pepper a good point with a Han Solo zinger. I really do. But I can't let this misquote stand. I believe he said, "Laugh it up, furball." Sorry, man. Good stuff, otherwise. Now we return to the heated SND debate already in progress. Signed, The Nerf herder ----------------------------------- Chris Clonts Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:09 pm I stand corrected, Empirically ----------------------------------- You are absolutely right, sir. The designers here (even a Metro editor!) chimed in to tell me that. I wish I could quote Han again and say "It's not my fault!" But that would be incorrect. I will now disembowel myself with my light saber. Or would that just cauterize the wound? Nevermind. ----------------------------------- RobertHuschka Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:14 pm ----------------------------------- Wow. Not to drag this debate even further in to geek land, but the correct Han Solo quote is: "Laugh it up, fuzzball." Sorry, but if I didn't post a correction, someone else would have. :D From the script: HAN: Well your Worship, looks like you managed to keep me around for a little while longer. LEIA: (haughtily) I had nothing to do with it. General Rieekan thinks it's dangerous for any ships to leave the system until we've activated the energy shield. HAN: That's a good story. I think you just can't bear to let a gorgeous guy like me out of your sight. LEIA: I don't know where you get you delusions, laser brain. Chewie is amused; he laughs in his manner. Han, enjoying himself, regards Chewie good-humoredly. HAN: Laugh it up, fuzz ball. ----------------------------------- Dave Shutton Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:17 pm ----------------------------------- Clonts wroteSo, as Han Solo once said, "Lighten up, fuzzball." Han Solo said "Laugh it up fuzzball." Be careful when quoting the canonical works. Bryan, you seem to be making an awfully large assumption here. Yes, I know Julie was an SND judge, and I can't speak as to what her experience was like as I only saw her for a few minutes today. However, I know her as a woman of great design skill and excellent taste, and I trust her judgement in the extreme. In addition to Julie, I have known several SND judges. I've heard the judging war stories. I see the things that don't win, and I heard the stories come back as to why they did not. And, I'm sorry if this offends, I've seen the not-very-good stuff that does win. I have a whole load of tales of SND intransigence, but they weren't told to me for public broadcast, so I guess you'll just have to take my word for it. But the point isn't me anyway. And, after noting your tone, let me add that it isn't about you either. I was speaking of judging as in the outcomes of the contest. That is what I disagree with, and I have good reason to despite the fact that you apparently think you can suss out my lack of credentials from a handful of posts. And, if you want to know what designers really think of SND judging, get a roomful of them and get them talking. ----------------------------------- sbeard Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:26 pm ----------------------------------- Wow. Not to drag this debate even further in to geek land, but the correct Han Solo quote is: "Laugh it up, fuzzball.". Egads! My Star Wars prowess fails me! I believe you are correct, Robert. Just the same, here's a fun exercise: try googling it both ways. The results are interesting ... and misleading. Soooo, I guess Chris and I split the diff on this one. Sorry, gang. Signed, The scruffy looking nerf herder ----------------------------------- Robb Montgomery Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:19 pm ----------------------------------- Alright people - this is sad. So very sad. Star Wars dialogue corrections already? I know the judging is hard, the fact that 5%-ish of all entries win anything is a low success rate to wrap around your brain. Rejection is cruel. But let's keep an open mind here. I don't have to be a present to understand that the sensory nerves will be overstimulated by viewing thousands of disparate entries in a mere three days. So certain losses are to be expected. What I know I would lose first, I imagine, is context. But, themes will emerge and, sure, some observations will be superficial, others deep and great work will end up in the unheralded heap because of a host of factors beyond your control. That is the price of judgement - it's exacting and precise. It's a human process. And it often produces a fantastic archive of our collective efforts in the printed annual. That annual is so concentrated with good work can you imagine what it must be like to see all the GOOD stuff that didn't win? It's inarguably an ambitious goal to accomplish a thoughtful and thorough judging of so many entries in one weekend. But that's the bargain, people. I personally have no wont to be judge, helper or witness. I don't have to be there to know that this workload will strain the limits any human being. I will forever remain a detached observer of this particular contest. Flawed as it may be - it is but one yardstick. Reader satisifaction is more rewarding. Even if the judges have no idea who your readers are. But's that's why we pay our fees, dotted our i's and mailed our pages to Syracuse. We put our trust in those self-loathing souls that enjoy this particular form of torture. God bless them for doing this thankless task. They're going to make mistakes, they may be setting an agenda you don't agree with or they may be ignoring award-winnning visual editing that is outside their own limited experience. I do believe their heart is in the right place and the contest is what it is. ----------------------------------- scavendish Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:32 pm ----------------------------------- Alright people - this is sad. So very sad. Star Wars dialogue corrections already? I know the judging is hard, the fact that 5%-ish of all entries win anything is a low success rate to wrap around your brain. Rejection is cruel. But let's keep an open mind here. I don't have to be a present to understand that the sensory nerves will be overstimulated by viewing thousands of disparate entries in a mere three days. So certain losses are to be expected. What I know I would lose first, I imagine, is context. But, themes will emerge and, sure, some observations will be superficial, others deep and great work will end up in the unheralded heap because of a host of factors beyond your control. That is the price of judgement - it's exacting and precise. It's a human process. And it often produces a fantastic archive of our collective efforts in the printed annual. That annual is so concentrated with good work can you imagine what it must be like to see all the GOOD stuff that didn't win? It's inarguably an ambitious goal to accomplish a thoughtful and thorough judging of so many entries in one weekend. But that's the bargain, people. I personally have no wont to be judge, helper or witness. I don't have to be there to know that this workload will strain the limits any human being. I will forever remain a detached observer of this particular contest. Flawed as it may be - it is but one yardstick. Reader satisifaction is more rewarding. Even if the judges have no idea who your readers are. But's that's why we pay our fees, dotted our i's and mailed our pages to Syracuse. We put our trust in those self-loathing souls that enjoy this particular form of torture. God bless them for doing this thankless task. They're going to make mistakes, they may be setting an agenda you don't agree with or they may be ignoring award-winnning visual editing that is outside their own limited experience. I do believe their heart is in the right place and the contest is what it is. Well put. I've had to resist the urge to post something inflamatory in here today. I believe in the competition, warts and all. I think it's a good process, but then again I'm closer to it than most. Above all, I think it's a fair process. At the end of the day, we can disagree with a set of judges opinions. The folks who put on the competition work very hard to get a well-balanced, talented group of judges every year. Their results will not please everyone, to be sure. There are lots of complaints and there probably always will be. But as long as people know it's fair and that the judges worked long and hard to give things their utmost consideration, then I'm cool with the criticism. Even if it's dead wrong. ;) ----------------------------------- Chris Clonts Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:50 pm ----------------------------------- Cavendish? Post something inflammatory? There's a first time for everything, man. Points taken, though. I think everyone would agree that most folks appreciate the judges' time, even their weekend of stress breeds what is not a very thinly veiled contempt for outsiders to the process. I think people aren't wondering so much what are the judges thinking, but what are we as an industry thinking if, in a market that SI's publisher is declaring all but dead, we are rewarding ourselves for being conservative and traditional? I'd add to the list of possible stats Steve C. and Robb M. wanted: How many of the world's best-designed gained in circulation last year? And what can we take from that? But as for the contest, let's say that it's like American democracy: It may be messy, possibly inaccurate, chaotic and divisive instead of unifying, but it's the best we got, folks. ----------------------------------- Charles Gooch Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:51 pm ----------------------------------- I re-read this thread and tried to figure out exactly what we were arguing about. Judging? Judging, by it's nature, is an opinion of the judge. And, unless I'm there and doing the judging, I tend to believe the people close to the process have a better vantage point from which to judge. Now, some points can be made about the inherent "favoritsm" shown to some publications. Well, that's natural to. Judges -- and all of us -- have made some prior judgments based on work from the past. That happens everywhere. I always check out the Virginian-Pilot ... that's because I've been trained by their success to check them out. Humans, as a whole, tend to do things like that. We can't expect "perfection" in the truest sense of the world from anyone -- and I don't see the point of picking on people who judge SND. Maybe this makes no sense. Maybe I'm just being too rational. Maybe I'm a scruffy looking nerf herder. Either way. gooch. ALSO: As an amendum to that, I have shown the Hartford Courant to some colleagues and the feelings were mixed. Photo guys LOVED the Courant. Graphics guys thought, what? Younger folks thought it was kinda conservative, older folks thought it was stately. Now, the margin of error for this survey is plus or minus 52, but still. That's the opinions of 10 people. ----------------------------------- Robb Montgomery Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:57 pm ----------------------------------- I imagine that we were fortunate to have strong entries for the mandatory dates. I also think that some people overlook that the judges place a great deal of importance on consistent inside page design, something the European papers often are superior at and an area we have focused on improving. The bottom line is that effective design is subjective and depends on your audience. Our audience is an unusual combination of traditional New England values combined with sophisticated artistic sensibilities and knowledge. We strive to design our pages accordingly. Does it mean our design is "better" than everyone else's in the world? Certainly not. And what we do probably wouldn't be successful in other markets. But I do believe that our design, from the first page to the last, is consistent every day, without tricks or gimmicks. Yet there is a good amount of creativity. Perhaps that's what the judges saw. Next year there will be new winners and new controversies. All we as designers can do in the meantime is try to learn from each other, stay true to our readers and challenge ourselves. The awards are nice, but in 2003 we were "bums," and I image next year we'll be "bums" again. Except for Die Zeit. They're always great. This, by the way, is a very classy acceptance speech. Jim, kudos to you and your mates in Hartford. What's so nice about Jim's reasoning is that is written from a completely 'un-smug' point of view. Now, THAT's refreshing! ----------------------------------- Clif Page Thu Feb 24, 2005 2:03 am ----------------------------------- Ramdom thoughts of an under-achieving idiot: I travel through New England once a year. When I see the Courant, I want to read it, and I do. I have also traveled to Germany. I wish I read German, so I could really enjoy Die Zeit, but it is beautiful. In the end, it is all about connecting with the reader (or the non-reader). Contests are a way to measure achievement. If you don't enter, you can't win. And if you do enter, and don't win, it should not be a sign of failure. Enter, then build the next page or complete the next edit. If you win, consider it a gift. In the end it is. I will say that the pages that SND generally recognises are usually those where the big stuff is handled very well (planning, concept, large visual and headline), and the detail is handled even better (copy, captions, breakouts and other stuff). And the people that win all the time are those who are willing to make sure that every part of the page works. Those people understand that every part of the newsroom brings something to a page to make it great. ----------------------------------- charles apple Thu Feb 24, 2005 6:35 am ----------------------------------- How many of the world's best-designed gained in circulation last year? And what can we take from that? Heh. No offense, but... Whose numbers would you believe? ----------------------------------- Chris Clonts Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:22 pm ----------------------------------- What, you mean you wouldn't trust a European Union Bureau of Circulation? Maybe for every copy we sell of a U.S. newspaper, they sell 1.32 copies...